Thoughts on Blackfire Polish

[PDC]

If this really belongs in the "detailing" forum, feel free to give it the boot. I just know how finicky we E55 drivers are about the appearance of our cars so I thought I'd share. 1st of all, I have tried just about every known brand of polish/wax/sealant out there. I also use a random orbital to detail my cars. I gave my car the full weekend long Zaino treatment last spring and agreed with many of you that Zaino was the best product I had ever used. However, I had one heckuva time trying to polish the fine swirls and towling marks out of my black car with Zaino Paint Cleaner. The Z5 really "hid" alot of the imperfections, but they gradually re-surfaced over time. So, this spring I decided to try Blackfire. The info (hype?) regarding the ultra-hard ceramic clear coats on newer Benz cars made sense, and Blackfire ceramic clear polish seemed ot be the answer. I did the top to bottom routine last week with Blackfire and was initially impressed. The car looked amazing under a non-flourescent light bulb. But under a flourescent light at the gas station at night or in bright sunlight, the paint looked just a spider-webbed as before. I spent all weekend pouring over MB posts as well as every car detailing site online looking for the miracle potion. Everything I read pointed right at Blackfire's "new" ceramic polish. I went back out to the garage yesterday and re-did the only trunk lid: cleaned, clayed, and polished. However, this time I set the speed on my random orbital up to the 4-5 range and got brave and really put some pressure behind the polisher. I made really steady, even passes at the higher speed with more pressure and did the trunk 3 complete times, wiping off the residue in between rounds and re-polishing with a small amount of fresh polish eash time. After the 3rd round, the trunk lid was absolutely swirl free - like glass - even under the flourescent worklight in my garage. No comparison at all to the rest of the car. I topped it off with a generous coat of Blackfire "Wet Diamond" sealant and it was unbelievable. I know what I'm going to be doing ALL WEEKEND LONG next week!!! So, the moral of the story is, the ceramic clear coat on our cars is REALLY hard. As long as you are using a random orbital - not a direct drive polisher - and using the proper foam pad and product, you won't damage the finish to crank up the rpms and really lean into it a bit. FYI

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[CynCarvin32]

Originally Posted by PDC

If this really belongs in the "detailing" forum, feel free to give it the boot. I just know how finicky we E55 drivers are about the appearance of our cars so I thought I'd share. 1st of all, I have tried just about every known brand of polish/wax/sealant out there. I also use a random orbital to detail my cars. I gave my car the full weekend long Zaino treatment last spring and agreed with many of you that Zaino was the best product I had ever used.

However, I had one heckuva time trying to polish the fine swirls and towling marks out of my black car with Zaino Paint Cleaner. The Z5 really "hid" alot of the imperfections, but they gradually re-surfaced over time. So, this spring I decided to try Blackfire. The info (hype?) regarding the ultra-hard ceramic clear coats on newer Benz cars made sense, and Blackfire ceramic clear polish seemed ot be the answer.

I did the top to bottom routine last week with Blackfire and was initially impressed. The car looked amazing under a non-flourescent light bulb. But under a flourescent light at the gas station at night or in bright sunlight, the paint looked just a spider-webbed as before.

I spent all weekend pouring over MB posts as well as every car detailing site online looking for the miracle potion. Everything I read pointed right at Blackfire's "new" ceramic polish.

I went back out to the garage yesterday and re-did the only trunk lid: cleaned, clayed, and polished. However, this time I set the speed on my random orbital up to the 4-5 range and got brave and really put some pressure behind the polisher. I made really steady, even passes at the higher speed with more pressure and did the trunk 3 complete times, wiping off the residue in between rounds and re-polishing with a small amount of fresh polish eash time.

After the 3rd round, the trunk lid was absolutely swirl free - like glass - even under the flourescent worklight in my garage. No comparison at all to the rest of the car. I topped it off with a generous coat of Blackfire "Wet Diamond" sealant and it was unbelievable. I know what I'm going to be doing ALL WEEKEND LONG next week!!!

So, the moral of the story is, the ceramic clear coat on our cars is REALLY hard. As long as you are using a random orbital - not a direct drive polisher - and using the proper foam pad and product, you won't damage the finish to crank up the rpms and really lean into it a bit.

FYI

I could babble for hours but a couple quick items.

1) If you are using a porter cable polisher its basically harmless for your paint. You could sit on it and it wont burn the paint (though I would not try that). It has so little actual circular rotation that it is very slow to cut the paint.

2) I would recommend a Flex polisher as it has far more power than a Porter Cable. It takes a bit more skill but it is still very safe with all but the toughest polishes and pads. It will make your swirl mark removal far easier and quicker.

3) I would recommend the full like of Menzerna Polishes and then the BlackFire Wet Diamond Sealant. The polishes used by Blackfire are just Menzerna re-bottled. The full line of Menzerna polishes covers a better grouping of paint flaws. They are second to none. This "new" ceramic polish came out several years ago (2004-2005) and there was a slight revision for less dusting last year. The polish for ceramic paint from blackfire is just P106FF from Menzerna. I have both and its the same stuff.

4) For a black E55 with minor to moderate swirl markings you really only need the 106FA Polish from Menzerna. You can also get the P085RD if you want the finest polish for maximum surface perfection as this is the best finishing polish for black paint. Follow up with Wet Diamond for a perfect finish. A more swirled or damaged paint will require a power finish S203 or Super Intensive Polish.

[dbesins]

I have been detailing for years now and all of cyncarvin are exactly the advices i was about ot give you...I have a PC FLEX and Makita rotary and IMO the PC is to weak especially on harder paint. Flex is the best option for beginners.
I would add that you might want to use Lake country foam pads. try orange for cutting and white for final polish. and maybe gray/black for wax/sealant/glaze.
good luck and rtemember try to take as little paint as possible. Doing test panel and inspecting your work continuously under a good source of light.

[PDC]

Thank you both for the posts. Pardon my ignorance, but I guess I'm here to learn. What is the difference between the Flex polisher and the Porter/Cable Random Orbital polisher? I have a Random Orbital that I got from Griot's Garage, but it is essentially a porter cable with a Griot's label on it. I am very interested in the Flex polisher, but want to know what the difference is before pulling the trigger on one. Thank You!!!

PDC

[CynCarvin32]

Originally Posted by PDC

Thank you both for the posts. Pardon my ignorance, but I guess I'm here to learn. What is the difference between the Flex polisher and the Porter/Cable Random Orbital polisher? I have a Random Orbital that I got from Griot's Garage, but it is essentially a porter cable with a Griot's label on it. I am very interested in the Flex polisher, but want to know what the difference is before pulling the trigger on one. Thank You!!!

PDC

Let me clear up this random orbital polisher item. I will also finish up with a video link to show you the difference in cutting power.

A PC polisher (ones sold from griots and say any tool store are the same) is more of a jiggler in motion. I has some circular motion but the minute you put pressure on the polisher the circular motion virtually stops (thats what makes it so safe for beginners) A flex has what is known as forced rotation. So while it still bobbles about in a random orbit, it also has a forced circular rotation giving it that additional CUTTING power.

Say a PC is a 3-4 on a scale of 1-10 in cutting power. A flex is about a 7-8 and a motabo full rotary is a 10.

I went with the Flex because while experienced I am not a pro with a true circular polisher. I will have one soon but I wanted to go step by step. I have yet to find a job the flex could not do but it will take more time than a full rotary polisher.

And as stated above, for sure get the full line of pads from lake county. The above poster was spot on with the pad selection. I have the yellow, orange, green, white, black and red pads from lake county (get say 2 or maybe 3 of each - 3 of the white and orange as those will be use the most frequently). The black was now replaced with a gold pad and you can also get wool pads for serious cutting power.

Keep the PC for applying sealant, get the flex for most polishing and then later get a true rotary from motabo for the really marred surfaces.

Link: This link is a link to the site for DetailersDomain.com Phil, the owner, is a fantastic vendor and he will never miss a beat. I have been beyond happy with his service and his pricing is the best on the net for everything. He will respond to your questions quickly and is always glad to help. Unlike some sites, Phil actually details cars instead of just trying to push product. He knows first hand about what he sells and will not lead you astray. His pads have a different coloring system for the different levels of cutting power when compared to say properautocare.com The quality is the same he just has a different system going. I would buy everything from him from here on out.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/index...ROD&ProdID=246

[c32AMG-DTM]

Just a quick clarification - Flex is a German powertool brand and there are (at least) 3 Flex polishers; CynCarvin is specifically recommending the 3401 VRG. The other two are rotaries... probably not what you're looking for.

[taurran]

I've seen some awesome results with Blackfire, but I'll always be a Zaino user.

If you have swirls that keep coming back and Z-5 won't cut it, it may be time to clay bar and start with Z-PC. I've had good results with it.

[CynCarvin32]

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

Just a quick clarification - Flex is a German powertool brand and there are (at least) 3 Flex polishers; CynCarvin is specifically recommending the 3401 VRG. The other two are rotaries... probably not what you're looking for.

very true. I use the term flex simply because thats the current craze in the market. I should have been far more clear. Sorry for that.

[CynCarvin32]

Originally Posted by taurran

I've seen some awesome results with Blackfire, but I'll always be a Zaino user.

If you have swirls that keep coming back and Z-5 won't cut it, it may be time to clay bar and start with Z-PC. I've had good results with it.

Z-5 is simply a filler. It has no ability to cut the paint and remove any surface marring. Its just a method to patch the issue by had for a few car washes. Z-PC really is a second tier product. I tested it many moons ago and it was really lack luster. It had almost no cutting power and it was hard to remove compared to Menzerna product. It was not as over hyped as the all in one from zaino but it really is not a comparable product to the meguiars or menzerna polishing products. Most German manufacturers use Menzerna for paint correction at the factory and that is a bid of confidence for these products. I should be fair enough to say Z-PC was not made for the ceramic clear coat paints used by MB since 2004-2005 (as early as 2001 on a few cars). I used z-pc on a 1996 E320 I bought a couple years back as a daily and it work fairly well. The ceramic clear paints just laugh at z-pc from what I have seen however.

Zaino is great for protection as it really does last quite a while. Trouble is it has a very plastic like finish on darker finishes. It will be very reflective but it will lack any depth. Its could be considered the inverse of a carnauba wax product in that carnauba wax's create wonderful depth and little protection.

The current generation of synthetic products have the protection of say zaino and some of the depth of the Carnauba wax. Menzerna FMJ was the first to offer wonderful depth with lasting protection. Then Blackfire came out with the wet diamond product and it has better protection and very similar depth and clarity.

I used to be a serious zaino lover but after branching out I have really found products that surpass it in all ways. On a silver car zaino is great but on a black car its pretty boring looking imho.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by CynCarvin32

very true. I use the term flex simply because thats the current craze in the market. I should have been far more clear. Sorry for that.

No worries; from the context of your post, anyone knowledgeable on the subject would correctly deduce your comments reflect usage of the 3401. Just figured I'd add the model number so someone wouldn't inadvertently pick up a 3403 (have one and love it, BTW) and expect the same operation as what you've mentioned.

[prodigymb]

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

No worries; from the context of your post, anyone knowledgeable on the subject would correctly deduce your comments reflect usage of the 3401. Just figured I'd add the model number so someone wouldn't inadvertently pick up a 3403 (have one and love it, BTW) and expect the same operation as what you've mentioned.

your car is super clean !! tutorial for fellow philly member? i wanted to get a flex some time ago but everyone kept telling me i'll ruin paint and not to do it myself blah blah. my car is black too and i want to get into detailing it myself .....

[PDC]

Big thanks to everybody who responded to and contributed to this thread. Sounds like I need to get a Flex Polisher! AutoGeek and propoerautocare.com seem to have pretty comparable prices on these and offer "kits" that include a starter variety of pads, pad cleaner, and the super-cool black carrying bag with the Flex logo on it. One kit even comes with a pair of menzerna polishes (fine and extra fine) for ceramic clear coats. Any opinions on Menzerna FMJ Sealant vs. Blackfire Wet Diamond????

Thanks agan to those with first hand experience for all your info and help!