KN Filters, CEL and OBDII Codes

lexaltezza · 08-14-2009, 12:38 AM

Since I was planning on leaving for vacation to Florida tomorrow, I decided to put in new air filters because the old one's were getting pretty dirty and thought about giving the K&N filters a shot. I installed them this morning and all seemed well. As I headed back home, I noticed the dreaded CEL. When I got home I pulled out my OBDII code reader and was shown the following codes:

P0170-Fuel Trim (Bank 1)
P0102-Mass or Volume air flow circuit low input
P010C- Mass or Volume air flow "B" circuit

I'm guessing the oil from the new filters have made the MAF sensor dirty? I've cleaned one before years ago and want to try and give that a shot. Are they the two sensors with wires clipped into them on the top of the intake box? I tried looking at it, but I'm not sure how to remove them. I tried looking online for a picture, but the MAF sensor appeared to be move oval and these are square. Maybe I"m looking at the wrong sensors?

Worst comes to worst, I'm going to take it to the dealer tomorrow and pray they have one in stock so I can still leave for my trip. However, I see they cost $300+. This really aggravates me and KN should have to pick up the bill

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Yacht Master · 08-14-2009, 01:13 AM

Too bad, you are not the first, and you won't be the last. Don't hold your breath waiting for K&N to make good.
Where in Florida do you plan to visit?

RenntechE55 · 08-14-2009, 01:53 AM

I let mine sit in the sun a for a lil while before i put them in , sorry I dont know how to clean MAF sensors

Vadim @ FD · 08-14-2009, 01:57 AM

Go back and re-check your install.

You have an air leak that's screwing up your MAF readings.

There are two. One per each bank.

It is not filters.

lexaltezza · 08-14-2009, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadim @ FD

Go back and re-check your install.

You have an air leak that's screwing up your MAF readings.

There are two. One per each bank.

It is not filters.

Where do you think the air leak could possibly be? I've removed the top of the airbox assembly, inspected it, and placed it back since I've had the light. Everything seems to look fine

shardul · 08-14-2009, 09:08 AM

Make sure the plastic Y pipe is secured correctly, it may look like it is secured but there will be a leak.
Also hook up your scanner and let us know that the throttle position percentage is at idle.

MRAMG1 · 08-14-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadim @ FD

Go back and re-check your install.

You have an air leak that's screwing up your MAF readings.

There are two. One per each bank.

It is not filters.

+1

When will people learn that K&N's DON'T cause MAF malfunctions. Sorry its horse hockey. Been using them since mid 80's now, and its just BS.

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm

gonzales25 · 08-14-2009, 09:40 AM

I put my K&N's in and threw a CEL the next day it was for a lean engine. I took them out and reset it. I'm waiting till I find out a solution before I put them back in? The car actually felt pretty good according to the butt dyno before I took them out.

Sincity · 08-15-2009, 03:21 AM

So far ok with my new K&Ns. I currently have them on the RDX and 63.

gonzales25 · 08-15-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sincity

So far ok with my new K&Ns. I currently have them on the RDX and 63.

Did u leave the charcoal filters in the 63?

JustPete · 08-15-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

+1

When will people learn that K&N's DON'T cause MAF malfunctions. Sorry its horse hockey. Been using them since mid 80's now, and its just BS.

http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexaltezza

Since I was planning on leaving for vacation to Florida tomorrow, I decided to put in new air filters because the old one's were getting pretty dirty and thought about giving the K&N filters a shot. I installed them this morning and all seemed well. As I headed back home, I noticed the dreaded CEL. When I got home I pulled out my OBDII code reader and was shown the following codes:

P0170-Fuel Trim (Bank 1)
P0102-Mass or Volume air flow circuit low input
P010C- Mass or Volume air flow "B" circuit

You're not going to get K&N to pay for anything. I wouldn't even aggravate yourself trying. This is a well known issue.

I've known many who have had their MAF fouled directly after installing K&N's or after cleaning and over oiling them. And do not trust that new filters are oiled properly. Before I ever install a K&N, I always blow them out with compressed air and then let them sit for a few days in the open air (engine side down) to coagulate. I can tell you for a fact, you'll get a lot of oil off them from brand new blowing them out. When I've done this I've never gotten a fouled MAF. Stick a paper towel behind them and blow it out and tell me oil doesn't come off them. You'll be surprised how much does.

That video is very misleading. They even admit the sensor got fouled but then the oil gets drawn off them and they're very durable.

They're right. They ARE very durable. That doesn't mean they can't foul ... it means they're not ruined.

I've cleaned them by a simple alcohol bath. And let them dry. You still have to clear the CEL.

I debated K&N's for this motor, but IMO the filter area is so over redundant, it's not worth the loss of filtration.

Sincity · 08-16-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzales25

Did u leave the charcoal filters in the 63?

Removed.

gonzales25 · 08-16-2009, 04:14 PM

Man, I threw a CEL the day after I put mine in? I asked about it before on here if the car will reset itself and I got mixed answers. So I took them out just to be safe until I can find out something definite.

JustPete · 08-16-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzales25

Man, I threw a CEL the day after I put mine in? I asked about it before on here if the car will reset itself and I got mixed answers. So I took them out just to be safe until I can find out something definite.

Try blowing them out like I suggested in the above post and try it again.

I've seen this many times.

If you fouled your MAF you'll need to clean it.

BlownV8 · 08-16-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPete

Try blowing them out like I suggested in the above post and try it again.

I've seen this many times.

If you fouled your MAF you'll need to clean it.

K&N specifically warns against blowing the filter out with compressed air. It can put a hole in the cotton gauze furthering your issues with oil penetrating to your MAF and will also cause dirt not to be filtered before entering your engine.

Many people falsley oil the backside of the filter so the oil gets sucked directly into the MAF. However, when installed correctly and not over oiled, there is nothing wrong with K&N's. I've gone through MAF's when using a paper filter so have tens of thousands of other people so you can't blame those failures on K&N. Some MAF's are just highly prone to failure. It's more than likely, in this case, that the reinstall was not done proprly and there is an air leak.

JustPete · 08-17-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlownV8

K&N specifically warns against blowing the filter out with compressed air. It can put a hole in the cotton gauze furthering your issues with oil penetrating to your MAF and will also cause dirt not to be filtered before entering your engine.

Many people falsley oil the backside of the filter so the oil gets sucked directly into the MAF. However, when installed correctly and not over oiled, there is nothing wrong with K&N's. I've gone through MAF's when using a paper filter so have tens of thousands of other people so you can't blame those failures on K&N. Some MAF's are just highly prone to failure. It's more than likely, in this case, that the reinstall was not done proprly and there is an air leak.

I suppose I should add ... use some common sense when blowing it out.

lexaltezza · 08-24-2009, 01:25 AM

Okay I've got an update. I took it in to the dealership to have it looked at. They also came to the conclusion that they are getting codes for an air intake leak. However, after inspecting everything they suspect it is a bogus code. They did however, find a service bulletin related to this issue and it recommends re-sealing the intake, at least that is what I was told. I'm going to take it in soon and have them complete this to see if it fixes the CEL. K&N filters or not, it is unusual for this to happen immediately after installing them.

FLSL55 · 10-17-2009, 12:49 AM

55 engines have no MAF.

myntk12 · 10-26-2009, 02:59 AM

Have always used KNN, only issue I ever had was too much oil which got on the MAF on my GS400. This caused a small piece of debris which must have been in my airbox to stick to the hotwire preventing the car from running. A simple spray of cleaner solved it.
So far no CEL in my E55.

ATKM5 · 10-26-2009, 03:10 AM

Lexaltezza, any news? I installed my K&Ns and had the light pop up with the same codes... My car is at the dealers and they suspect a manifold leak

... All of this started randomly happening after I installed the K&Ns.

Can you please keep me updated as we are having the same issue on the same car, lol!

JustPete · 10-26-2009, 11:08 AM

What sensor might cause the false detection of a leak?

The MAF perhaps?

I'm just sayin ...

MRAMG1 · 10-26-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPete

What sensor might cause the false detection of a leak?

The MAF perhaps?

I'm just sayin ...

Not ever going to happen my friend, at least NOT from a K/N

ATKM5 · 10-26-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPete

What sensor might cause the false detection of a leak?

The MAF perhaps?

I'm just sayin ...

Should I just tell my dealer to replace the MAF? I honestly think that my manifold is fine...

JustPete · 10-27-2009, 01:59 PM

At $300+ a pop ... I'd clean them first. (2 on a 63? ... I find them online for $352 ea)

Problem is, even if they're clean and working properly, the code may have to be cleared. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that)

I believe, once a "serious" CEL code is triggered, you need to clear it.

MAF sensors are usually located directly after the filters and before the Throttle body.

ATKM5 · 10-30-2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPete

At $300+ a pop ... I'd clean them first. (2 on a 63? ... I find them online for $352 ea)

Problem is, even if they're clean and working properly, the code may have to be cleared. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that)

I believe, once a "serious" CEL code is triggered, you need to clear it.

MAF sensors are usually located directly after the filters and before the Throttle body.

UPDATE! Apparently there was a recall on this issue that was never performed on my car...

Should have it back tomorrow!

For now, I just discovered how to put a B200 5-speed into Dyno mode, lol!

08-14-2009, 01:13 AM	#2
Yacht Master MBWorld Fanatic! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Caribbean/Florida/Colorado/Panama Posts: 2,387 Drives: E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s, Sold Porsche to Brother	Too bad, you are not the first, and you won't be the last. Don't hold your breath waiting for K&N to make good. Where in Florida do you plan to visit? __________________ Click here for the Beast 2004 E55K AMG

08-14-2009, 01:53 AM	#3
RenntechE55 Super Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Fountain Hills Posts: 964 Drives: E55 AMG	I let mine sit in the sun a for a lil while before i put them in , sorry I dont know how to clean MAF sensors __________________ 2005 S55 engine , 180mm LET pulley , VRP intake/ Python tubes , Floored Fab. LT's with Race cats. Floored Fab. HE/ CM30 pump 19" OZ Racing wheels , lowered with links........whats next??

08-14-2009, 01:57 AM	#4
Vadim @ FD SPONSOR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,854 Drives: S600TT, R350	Go back and re-check your install. You have an air leak that's screwing up your MAF readings. There are two. One per each bank. It is not filters. __________________

08-14-2009, 09:08 AM	#6
shardul MBWorld Fanatic! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Houston Posts: 1,401 Drives: 2003 W211 E55	Make sure the plastic Y pipe is secured correctly, it may look like it is secured but there will be a leak. Also hook up your scanner and let us know that the throttle position percentage is at idle. __________________ "Lieber Nurburgring als Ehering"

08-14-2009, 09:40 AM	#8
gonzales25 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 58 Drives: E63	I put my K&N's in and threw a CEL the next day it was for a lean engine. I took them out and reset it. I'm waiting till I find out a solution before I put them back in? The car actually felt pretty good according to the butt dyno before I took them out. __________________ 2007 E63 (His) 2007 GL450 (Hers) 1970 CONV KARMANN GHIA (Hers again!!)

08-15-2009, 03:21 AM	#9
Sincity MBWorld Fanatic! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Vegas, baby! Posts: 2,249 Drives: '86 190e restoration project, '08 Acura RDX, '09 C63 AMG	So far ok with my new K&Ns. I currently have them on the RDX and 63. __________________ "Unofficial Member" of the Vancouver Benz crew. '09 C63 KLEEMANN MS-11S & K1. Charcoal delete w/K&Ns. SMERC upper strut bar.

08-16-2009, 04:14 PM	#13
gonzales25 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 58 Drives: E63	Man, I threw a CEL the day after I put mine in? I asked about it before on here if the car will reset itself and I got mixed answers. So I took them out just to be safe until I can find out something definite. __________________ 2007 E63 (His) 2007 GL450 (Hers) 1970 CONV KARMANN GHIA (Hers again!!)

08-24-2009, 01:25 AM	#17
lexaltezza Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 388 Drives: 08 CLS63	Okay I've got an update. I took it in to the dealership to have it looked at. They also came to the conclusion that they are getting codes for an air intake leak. However, after inspecting everything they suspect it is a bogus code. They did however, find a service bulletin related to this issue and it recommends re-sealing the intake, at least that is what I was told. I'm going to take it in soon and have them complete this to see if it fixes the CEL. K&N filters or not, it is unusual for this to happen immediately after installing them. __________________

10-17-2009, 12:49 AM	#18
FLSL55 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 458 Drives: SL55, RX7, RX400h	55 engines have no MAF.

10-26-2009, 02:59 AM	#19
myntk12 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 145 Drives: 2004 E55 AMG	Have always used KNN, only issue I ever had was too much oil which got on the MAF on my GS400. This caused a small piece of debris which must have been in my airbox to stick to the hotwire preventing the car from running. A simple spray of cleaner solved it. So far no CEL in my E55.

10-26-2009, 03:10 AM	#20
ATKM5 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto/Mississauga/Moscow Posts: 347 Drives: 2008 CLS63 AMG	Lexaltezza, any news? I installed my K&Ns and had the light pop up with the same codes... My car is at the dealers and they suspect a manifold leak ... All of this started randomly happening after I installed the K&Ns. Can you please keep me updated as we are having the same issue on the same car, lol! __________________ Present - 2008 Mercedes CLS63 AMG - Silver on Black... Gone - 2005 Mercedes E55 AMG - Black on Black... Gone - 2006 BMW M5 SMG - Silverstone on Indianapolis Red, gone but will never be forgotten... Gone - 2003 Hummer H2 - Black on Beige... *Mississauga Crew*

10-26-2009, 11:08 AM	#21
JustPete Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 426 Drives: CLS55 AMG 030	What sensor might cause the false detection of a leak? The MAF perhaps? I'm just sayin ... __________________

10-27-2009, 01:59 PM	#24
JustPete Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 426 Drives: CLS55 AMG 030	At $300+ a pop ... I'd clean them first. (2 on a 63? ... I find them online for $352 ea) Problem is, even if they're clean and working properly, the code may have to be cleared. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that) I believe, once a "serious" CEL code is triggered, you need to clear it. MAF sensors are usually located directly after the filters and before the Throttle body. __________________

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