Shorty headers vs longtube headers

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by Full Throttle There are more 700,800whp Domestics than there are roads that drive around on sub $1000 headers that never crack or rust. The price points for both systems have absolutly nothing to do with material cost. You did not invent using 321, 304 stainless steel and 308 SS rods, to make headers. The pricing is insane. If I could order 300 sets of headers and have them made in China, we would have sub $1000 headers. Unfortunately I would be stuck with 285 sets of headers. Thats ok though with you right? As long as You get the price you want , it doesnt matter if it sinks me? Also keep in mind that there are alot of 700,800whp domestics than there are roads, that drive around on sub $1000 headers that are cracked. Also there are alot of people who think the price of a CLS55 is insane. The way you see it is all things are equal, High production run domestics that have been using a very similar engine platform for years. Vs a very low production car, like your CLS55. If Mercedes started blowing out AMG's like Sony does plasma TV's then there would be a price drop. Until then I'm doing the best i can for you guys.

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[Full Throttle]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

If I could order 300 sets of headers and have them made in China, we would have sub $1000 headers. Unfortunately I would be stuck with 285 sets of headers. Thats ok though with you right? As long as You get the price you want , it doesnt matter if it sinks me?

Also keep in mind that there are alot of 700,800whp domestics than there are roads, that drive around on sub $1000 headers that are cracked.

Also there are alot of people who think the price of a CLS55 is insane.

The way you see it is all things are equal, High production run domestics that have been using a very similar engine platform for years. Vs a very low production car, like your CLS55.

If Mercedes started blowing out AMG's like Sony does plasma TV's then there would be a price drop. Until then I'm doing the best i can for you guys.

All headers that are priced under the prices posted here are not made in china. Please don't post misinformation to support your price points. Also i have never had a header crack on any of my cars domestic or otherwise. Your production numbers vs price argument does not work either, just look at the R35 community. With that said your headers actually look very very well made and if i were to buy a header system it would be yours or similar.



Now whip me up a set of L/T's and a mid pipe with high flow cats a cross over section and no resonators

[myntk12]

I was one of the first to install headers on a SC430 years back. They also fit other V8 models, LS, SC, GS, etc.
The price was only $600.00 and guess what? They cracked, just about every single one of them cracked.

The labor involved in installing those on 430 models is as high as $1000 alone-just labor. I'm sure those customers would have been glad to pay extra for quality units. I do all of my own work.

A good compromise of course is what everyone is looking for.

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by Full Throttle

All headers that are priced under the prices posted here are not made in china. Please don't post misinformation to support your price points. Also i have never had a header crack on any of my cars domestic or otherwise. Your production numbers vs price argument does not work either, just look at the R35 community. With that said your headers actually look very very well made and if i were to buy a header system it would be yours or similar.



Now whip me up a set of L/T's and a mid pipe with high flow cats a cross over section and no resonators

I now get these catalogs that offer all sorts of exhaust systems, headers, mufflers and what not. Available out of China. After thumbing through them you would be surprised how many products you can recognize in there.

I could have sworn i was looking at a Fabspeed full exhaust system for a Porsche offered for pennies on the dollar.

[Mathmik]

Originally Posted by tm02

I paid 1999 for the Eurocharged headers and they are stainless.

Not Bad at that Price!

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by Mathmik

Not Bad at that Price!

Agreed - EC's $2k price for M113 SS LT's (Illinois-made, AFAIK) is quite good. Allegedly just "introductory" but that price might still be valid, IDK. Kleemann's M113 SS "mid-length" headers with cat-delete SS DP's are $1495, which IMHO is also a very reasonable price.

All that said, MBH/DC's "mid-length" M113 headers are among the best craftsmanship for MB headers that I've ever seen pics of. Apparently make good power too.

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

Agreed - EC's $2k price for M113 SS LT's (Illinois-made, AFAIK) is quite good. Allegedly just "introductory" but that price might still be valid, IDK. Kleemann's M113 SS "mid-length" headers with cat-delete SS DP's are $1495, which IMHO is also a very reasonable price.

All that said, MBH/DC's "mid-length" M113 headers are among the best craftsmanship for MB headers that I've ever seen pics of. Apparently make good power too.

Thanks for the kind words

[Zod]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Thanks for the kind words

Still have yet to see them on a CLS55 after how long has it been?

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by Zod

Still have yet to see them on a CLS55 after how long has it been?

Good news is We have a set being finished Thursday that will be installed on my brothers CLS55. His car's engine is bone stock. we will have before and after dyno results too. My guess is next week we will install them on his CLS and get it on the dyno asap.

[jturkel]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Good news is We have a set being finished Thursday that will be installed on my brothers CLS55. His car's engine is bone stock. we will have before and after dyno results too. My guess is next week we will install them on his CLS and get it on the dyno asap.

cant wait to see the results! i'll probably be there lol.

[jturkel]

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

All that said, MBH/DC's "mid-length" M113 headers are among the best craftsmanship for MB headers that I've ever seen pics of. Apparently make good power too.

i will say that, seeing these in person, both while being fabricated, before installed, and after installed, they look unbelievable. pristine falls short in describing their quality.

[hhughes1]

Originally Posted by intellilogic

No one ever makes **** for the 63's ... They have been in country for over 3 years now.

I'm not sure about an application for the E63 but there are LT's on several C63's and the gains are incredible. I went from Kleemann shorties to MHP long tubes retaining the Kleemann tune. The whole system is bolt on from block to resonator with the mid section available for cats. O2 bungs are built in as well. These pipes gained 44rwhp and 32#'s tq over the short headers in some really crappy atmosphere!

[jturkel]

Originally Posted by hhughes1

I'm not sure about an application for the E63 but there are LT's on several C63's and the gains are incredible. I went from Kleemann shorties to MHP long tubes retaining the Kleemann tune. The whole system is bolt on from block to resonator with the mid section available for cats. O2 bungs are built in as well. These pipes gained 44rwhp and 32#'s tq over the short headers in some really crappy atmosphere!

i'm glad you enjoy your new headers. while it seems that some 63 owners are happy with the MHP longtubes, they are really not the greatest quality. take a look at these pictures of the MHP headers i have found and analyzed. as you will see they still need some work to be considered "great" or a "high quality product" IMHO.

[beauphus]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Good news is We have a set being finished Thursday that will be installed on my brothers CLS55. His car's engine is bone stock. we will have before and after dyno results too. My guess is next week we will install them on his CLS and get it on the dyno asap.

I for one am VERY interested to see the results of this. Have been reading ad nauseum about headers of all varieties and there isnt enough data to go on for the CLS. The results from this particular application will be the deciding factor for me. Anxious to see the outcome.

[Full Throttle]

Originally Posted by jturkel

i'm glad you enjoy your new headers. while it seems that some 63 owners are happy with the MHP longtubes, they are really not the greatest quality. take a look at these pictures of the MHP headers i have found and analyzed. as you will see they still need some work to be considered "great" or a "high quality product" IMHO.

WOW now that's quality

[lowprofile]

Ok, I'm not with MHP or any other camp but,...that spot weld is exactly the way it should be. You spot the outside of the flange and fully weld the inside. What this does is allow the pipe to expand and move a little as it heat cycles. This is more important to do with stainless then mild steel. Not saying you can't fully weld the outside of the flange, but having a choice, I would have done the same.

On a separate note, MBH spared no expense on their header and it shows. Nice work!

[jturkel]

Originally Posted by lowprofile

Ok, I'm not with MHP or any other camp but,...that spot weld is exactly the way it should be. You spot the outside of the flange and fully weld the inside. What this does is allow the pipe to expand and move a little as it heat cycles. This is more important to do with stainless then mild steel. Not saying you can't fully weld the outside of the flange, but having a choice, I would have done the same.

On a separate note, MBH spared no expense on their header and it shows. Nice work!

yah perhaps....but on another note, you can see in the picture, they dont appear to not be double wall welded either.

regardless, i'll agree with you on the MBH ones. i guess i'm partial to perfection after seeing NO flaws on MBH headers anywhere, anyhow.

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Thanks for the kind words

Call 'em like I see 'em, Mike.

[hooleyboy]

Those MHP headers with a catless mid section are $8,999, If you want cats its close to 10K... That my friends is crazy...

[c32AMG-DTM]

Originally Posted by lowprofile

Ok, I'm not with MHP or any other camp but,...that spot weld is exactly the way it should be. You spot the outside of the flange and fully weld the inside. What this does is allow the pipe to expand and move a little as it heat cycles. This is more important to do with stainless then mild steel. Not saying you can't fully weld the outside of the flange, but having a choice, I would have done the same.

On a separate note, MBH spared no expense on their header and it shows. Nice work!

^Agreed.

[hhughes1]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Those MHP headers with a catless mid section are $8,999, If you want cats its close to 10K... That my friends is crazy...

That price includes the software tune as well. Nice thing about the hardware is that it opened up my Kleemann tune which was already bought and paid for. Fact is longtube headers transform the 63 motor to a degree well beyond any shorties including the ones from MKB.

[Zod]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

Good news is We have a set being finished Thursday that will be installed on my brothers CLS55. His car's engine is bone stock. we will have before and after dyno results too. My guess is next week we will install them on his CLS and get it on the dyno asap.

waiting waiting