Shorty headers vs longtube headers

[Forrest Gump 9]

Like the title said, what are the pros and cons of the shorty headers over the longtube headers? TIA PS I'm in the process of getting a set of headers make for my E55 by a local speed shop.

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[RenntechE55]

Supposedly LT's make more power? thats all I can think of, my LT's with race cats sound really really good to.

[hooleyboy]

one aspect of long tubes, not really talked about to much is.. You can add a deeper degree of tuning. IIRC, you can add more ignition to a tune with long tubes over shorty or stock manifold.

Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.

LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.

Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?

[98aggie]

In some applications a 1 7/8" shorty header will make almost as much power as a 1 3/4" LT header

[intellilogic]

short tube headers will bolt on, easy done, there is lots of chips that go easy with them, done and done. $5k-ish (renntech) $1k for chip, like 60-80hp gain on 63 - a lot less on 55.

Long tube header, you have to mod your exhaust, you might as well go with full custom exhaust. In order to fit a long tube header on to your car, each tube has to pass through the very limited room, leading from the underbody to where the header attaches, this means lots of small welds, even if you buy it pre-fab. In going with logtube headers, it changes everything and moves the O2 censor, so you need some software to disable that. Long tube headers are a serious commitment. $8k-ish (evotech) $1k-ish for chip 80-100hp gain on a 63 - a lot less on 55.

It's simple to get more power from a 55, for a 63, headers is probably the biggest step in the right direction. TO see pictures, check my facebook - there is a link in my signature (little blue F in the middle)

[Forrest Gump 9]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go with the long tube header for my car. I'll not drive the car during the winter so it'll be at the shop get the header fab up and also re-do the exhaust. The header will be equal length also.

The car currently have the Renntech 172 mm pulley and tune. I will upgrade the heat exchanger, split the cooling system, add rear 5 gallon tank, 82mm tb, 160* PTE thermostat, and of course re-tune.

[slownrusty]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

one aspect of long tubes, not really talked about to much is.. You can add a deeper degree of tuning. IIRC, you can add more ignition to a tune with long tubes over shorty or stock manifold.

Some say you can see a drop in torque with long tube. However with my experience with long tubes on AMG, I dont see it. Even more so after a retune. The torque is there thats for sure.

LTs header power gains can be upwards of 50WHP!!! pending on supporting mods. In short they really open up a lot of doors for AMG performance.

Do you have any MODS planned for your Shrimp Boat? High performance nets? Legs for Lieutenant Dan?

W\ short tube headers you can run quite a bit more ignition advance this is not a situation unique to the Long Tubes.

Yasin

[Ohbev]

which shops makes the best long tubes. there is so much talk about this that at the end of the day who makes the best over all headers

[jangy]

My VRP logs gained a solid 25 and the VRP (Floored Fab) Long tubes have added 50. There is an extra 25 in long tubes + tune.

[MBH motorsports]

This is a dyno chart of an E55 with a ton of mods, Dyno Comp replaced the Renntech shorty headers with the MBH/Dyno-Comp Long tubes and tossed it on the dyno. The Dyno results show gains over an E55 equiped with with shorty headers, then replaced with our long tubes. The results tell it all.





These headers will out last your car.

This is the only header available for Mercedes AMG's that uses the specs of your engine to aid in the design. Also 3D Computer mapping and 321 stainless steel flanges,

Other features:
100% Argon back purge TIG welded.
Ture firing order design
Slip-joint colectors
321 & 304 stainless steel
Double flange wall welded
3M Scotch-Brite finish

Our fabricator bring years of header fabrication experance. He is a former IRL racing league header fabricator.

The last time he used mild steel on an exhaust project was when he was making a header jig.

[tm02]

I went with Eurocharged Performance longtube and they fit and sound great.I would say atleast 50hp

[slownrusty]

Hooleyboy - If I am reading that dyno correctly...are you saying that the LT made 48-50hp increase at the wheels over the short tubers?

Yasin

[jangy]

This discussion needs to add retail pricing. As Hooley is showing, there are long tubes and there are long tubes. Do they all add 50hp?



Hooley: I think your data is a sweet display of how "our" cars run out of air at the top. Your LTs have sweet gains!

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by slownrusty

Hooleyboy - If I am reading that dyno correctly...are you saying that the LT made 48-50hp increase at the wheels over the short tubers?

Yasin

Yes, IIRC there was a set of cats removed when we installed the headers

Originally Posted by jangy

This discussion needs to add retail pricing. As Hooley is showing, there are long tubes and there are long tubes. Do they all add 50hp?



Hooley: I think your data is a sweet display of how "our" cars run out of air at the top. Your LTs have sweet gains!

When I started this header quest I didnt want to add much bottom end torque. these cars have enough. Its top end power I was after. Most people find themselves at redline when crossing the the traps. I wanted to come out with something that could give a top end push. I think most cars run out of air on the dyno at 120mph

My fabricator worked on the design, playing with runner sizes, to have most of the power come on later in the RPM range.

[Exotic-metal55]

Originally Posted by tm02

I went with Eurocharged Performance longtube and they fit and sound great.I would say atleast 50hp

+ one. Saw those 5 links on my car first hand.. Same LT`s for me next!

[myntk12]

I have got to get me a set of headers. They have always been proven in all of my others cars.

[RenntechE55]

My floored Fad. LT's have been great , sound good , look good and make good power for almost the price of a shorty header. The only prob I have is ground clearence but its mostly because I slammed my car

[MBH motorsports]

Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.

Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.

Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)

Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.

MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.

Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges

MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200

Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300

Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.

[RenntechE55]

Originally Posted by MBH motorsports

Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.

Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.

Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)

Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.

MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.

Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges

MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200

Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300

Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.

ya true, but for that $2500 you get the whole exhaust with cats vs. $5000 from MBH/DC ( http://dyno-comp.com/details.php?model=68&type=80#st ) the rust part doesnt really bother me since I live in AZ and they are coated in side and out so I probably wont have the car any more when the headers rust out. I would have loved to try the MBH kit since Im right up the road but its all a matter of how much I had to spend on mods and if I would have went the MBH/DC LT route that would have been my whole mod budget.

So I guess it all depends on what you want to spend like I would have loved a BS over my E55 but didnt have enough $$$$ so kind of like the same scenario, No?

[MBH motorsports]

Originally Posted by RenntechE55

ya true, but for that $2500 you get the whole exhaust with cats vs. $5000 from MBH/DC ( http://dyno-comp.com/details.php?model=68&type=80#st ) the rust part doesnt really bother me since I live in AZ and they are coated in side and out so I probably wont have the car any more when the headers rust out. I would have loved to try the MBH kit since Im right up the road but its all a matter of how much I had to spend on mods and if I would have went the MBH/DC LT route that would have been my whole mod budget.

So I guess it all depends on what you want to spend like I would have loved a BS over my E55 but didnt have enough $$$$ so kind of like the same scenario, No?

I dont think $3700 is right, I almost 100% sure the cost is much lower. Also the cats are alot lower too. I'm going to talk with Rich and make sure we are on the same page with the headers cost. I suggest people PM me first. I will get the best deal possible.

[RenntechE55]

ya maybe the website hasnt been updated?

[intellilogic]

No one ever makes **** for the 63's ... They have been in country for over 3 years now.

[hooleyboy]

Originally Posted by intellilogic

No one ever makes **** for the 63's ... They have been in country for over 3 years now.

From what I hear 63 headers are coming. I'm not to involved in that project, but from what I hear and know its happening. I know the MBH/DC C63 headers are coming out soon, the other 63's will be right behind it.

[Full Throttle]

Originally Posted by MBH motorsports

Being in AZ, I've seen alot of Floored Fabs stuff. The only thing that gets me about Floored Fabs headers is they are mild steel. Floored Fab does decent fabrication work. However for $2500 (I think thats what FF headers cost) you get a set of headers that only have about $200 of material in them.

Here is a friendly material cost comparison of the MBH/DC headers vs FF headers.

Last I checked our headers go for around $3200 ( I dont do pricing so not 100% on that)

Floored Fab's are like $2500, from what I hear.

MBH/DC Headers have well over $1000 worth of 321, 304 stainless steel and alot of 308 SS rods. We will just call it an even 1k in material for comparison sake.

Floorded Fab. about $200 worth of mild steel tubing and flanges

MBH headers $3200 - $1000 = $2200

Floored Fab headers, $2500 - $200 = $2300

Our Headers, based on this basic math (not including machining costs, and Misc other stuff for both Floored fab and MBH/DC) offer a better value. The MBH/DC headers will outlast your car. Not to mention the many more heat cycles stainless steel can endure vs mild steel.

There are more 700,800whp Domestics than there are roads that drive around on sub $1000 headers that never crack or rust. The price points for both systems have absolutly nothing to do with material cost. You did not invent using 321, 304 stainless steel and 308 SS rods, to make headers. The pricing is insane.

[tm02]

I paid 1999 for the Eurocharged headers and they are stainless.