Killer Chiller installed and....
11-06-2010, 04:47 PM
#1
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Killer Chiller installed and....
The install itself wasn't difficult but you definitely need to be familiar with wrenching. From a mechanical standpoint I rate myself about a 3 out of 10 and there's no way I would take this job on. I also noticed that the install itself will vary from year to year along with varying options...like carbon fiber front lip, HE mounts, distronics, and etc. Basically you would need to be somewhat innovative.
It was recommended that I fully remove the HE but I opted to keep it for now. All though I am thinking that either a simple bypass line or insulating the HE for test purposes would be worthwhile. The KC cools the water down to a point where the HE could no longer aide the coolant temps and becomes inefficient. We’ll most likely come up with something to temporarily bypass the HE and do more testing to see what one will actually gain better results.
The test results so far. Yesterday it was a cool evening with temps around 60 degrees. At idle the lowest we witnessed was 50 degrees and the highest at 55 with ambient at 60. I believe the max we’ll see will be right around 50 Degrees with the current setup with the HE attached. I actually logged the same results today with ambient at 68. On the way home from MBTeks house I did a blast from 30ish to 120+ and IAT’s started at 52 degrees and ended at 68, not too bad. I’ll get more logs done later in the week.
In cabin temps were affected slightly and hard to tell what they would do on a much warmer day. What I did notice was that it did take a few minutes longer to cool down but once cooled it stayed cold. Again, this was on a 60 degree day so much warmer day might yield different results. Removing the HE might help this since the KC will have to work less in keeping the temps down, we’ll see.
It was recommended that I fully remove the HE but I opted to keep it for now. All though I am thinking that either a simple bypass line or insulating the HE for test purposes would be worthwhile. The KC cools the water down to a point where the HE could no longer aide the coolant temps and becomes inefficient. We’ll most likely come up with something to temporarily bypass the HE and do more testing to see what one will actually gain better results.
The test results so far. Yesterday it was a cool evening with temps around 60 degrees. At idle the lowest we witnessed was 50 degrees and the highest at 55 with ambient at 60. I believe the max we’ll see will be right around 50 Degrees with the current setup with the HE attached. I actually logged the same results today with ambient at 68. On the way home from MBTeks house I did a blast from 30ish to 120+ and IAT’s started at 52 degrees and ended at 68, not too bad. I’ll get more logs done later in the week.
In cabin temps were affected slightly and hard to tell what they would do on a much warmer day. What I did notice was that it did take a few minutes longer to cool down but once cooled it stayed cold. Again, this was on a 60 degree day so much warmer day might yield different results. Removing the HE might help this since the KC will have to work less in keeping the temps down, we’ll see.
11-06-2010, 05:28 PM
#2
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cornfed gtr and m3
Great stuff Alan!! 
I am stoked to hear you got this done. I think it will be a game changer, IATs topping out at 68 on a blast to 120mph sounds pretty damn good. Also, a friend of mine runs the KC on his cobra and says his ac isn't much affected by it. It sounds like that is about your result as well, although a hotter day will tell that tale more accurately.
I am stoked to hear you got this done. I think it will be a game changer, IATs topping out at 68 on a blast to 120mph sounds pretty damn good. Also, a friend of mine runs the KC on his cobra and says his ac isn't much affected by it. It sounds like that is about your result as well, although a hotter day will tell that tale more accurately.
11-06-2010, 05:33 PM
#3
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The install itself wasn't difficult but you definitely need to be familiar with wrenching. From a mechanical standpoint I rate myself about a 3 out of 10 and there's no way I would take this job on. I also noticed that the install itself will vary from year to year along with varying options...like carbon fiber front lip, HE mounts, distronics, and etc. Basically you would need to be somewhat innovative.
It was recommended that I fully remove the HE but I opted to keep it for now. All though I am thinking that either a simple bypass line or insulating the HE for test purposes would be worthwhile. The KC cools the water down to a point where the HE could no longer aide the coolant temps and becomes inefficient. We’ll most likely come up with something to temporarily bypass the HE and do more testing to see what one will actually gain better results.
The test results so far. Yesterday it was a cool evening with temps around 60 degrees. At idle the lowest we witnessed was 50 degrees and the highest at 55 with ambient at 60. I believe the max we’ll see will be right around 50 Degrees with the current setup with the HE attached. I actually logged the same results today with ambient at 68. On the way home from MBTeks house I did a blast from 30ish to 120+ and IAT’s started at 52 degrees and ended at 68, not too bad. I’ll get more logs done later in the week.
In cabin temps were affected slightly and hard to tell what they would do on a much warmer day. What I did notice was that it did take a few minutes longer to cool down but once cooled it stayed cold. Again, this was on a 60 degree day so much warmer day might yield different results. Removing the HE might help this since the KC will have to work less in keeping the temps down, we’ll see.
It was recommended that I fully remove the HE but I opted to keep it for now. All though I am thinking that either a simple bypass line or insulating the HE for test purposes would be worthwhile. The KC cools the water down to a point where the HE could no longer aide the coolant temps and becomes inefficient. We’ll most likely come up with something to temporarily bypass the HE and do more testing to see what one will actually gain better results.
The test results so far. Yesterday it was a cool evening with temps around 60 degrees. At idle the lowest we witnessed was 50 degrees and the highest at 55 with ambient at 60. I believe the max we’ll see will be right around 50 Degrees with the current setup with the HE attached. I actually logged the same results today with ambient at 68. On the way home from MBTeks house I did a blast from 30ish to 120+ and IAT’s started at 52 degrees and ended at 68, not too bad. I’ll get more logs done later in the week.
In cabin temps were affected slightly and hard to tell what they would do on a much warmer day. What I did notice was that it did take a few minutes longer to cool down but once cooled it stayed cold. Again, this was on a 60 degree day so much warmer day might yield different results. Removing the HE might help this since the KC will have to work less in keeping the temps down, we’ll see.
Try bypassing the HE to see how it does. Did you spray meth during that blast?
11-06-2010, 05:34 PM
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Awesome job Alan! Can't wait to see your car run!
It seems the KC is working well for you it's definitely something worth looking into!
It seems the KC is working well for you it's definitely something worth looking into!
11-06-2010, 05:51 PM
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The removal of the HE will also eliminate weight weight in front of the car, which is ideal for weight transfer. I would guess that all the added equipment it will add approximately 10-12 pounds to the car, not much at all. Some think the removal of the HE would net around 30lb of total weight loss when filled with water. It's definitely worth a try.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I usually run anywhere between 18-high 20's with the KC, which means this is over a 30 degree change. I'm sure as the weather warms I'll even see a bigger gain in the IAT department.
Last edited by bassn_07; 11-06-2010 at 06:05 PM.
11-06-2010, 06:23 PM
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w211 e55
Yep, sorry forgot to mention that. This combined with meth is going to be a great solution for people not wanting to deal with rear reservoirs and ice.
The removal of the HE will also eliminate weight weight in front of the car, which is ideal for weight transfer. I would guess that all the added equipment it will add approximately 10-12 pounds to the car, not much at all. Some think the removal of the HE would net around 30lb of total weight loss when filled with water. It's definitely worth a try.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I usually run anywhere between 18-high 20's with the KC, which means this is over a 30 degree change. I'm sure as the weather warms I'll even see a bigger gain in the IAT department.
The removal of the HE will also eliminate weight weight in front of the car, which is ideal for weight transfer. I would guess that all the added equipment it will add approximately 10-12 pounds to the car, not much at all. Some think the removal of the HE would net around 30lb of total weight loss when filled with water. It's definitely worth a try.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I usually run anywhere between 18-high 20's with the KC, which means this is over a 30 degree change. I'm sure as the weather warms I'll even see a bigger gain in the IAT department.
Thanks!!
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11-06-2010, 07:00 PM
#8
Great report Alan! MBTek (super cool and knowledgeable tech) was showing me the setup on the silver E55 and it definitely sounds like it's working on your car. I think you're going to haul some serious *** at Famoso. I have a question though that didn't cross my mind when I was at the garage. If you remove your heat exchanger, would that mean you will always need to run the AC? If that's a case, maybe find a way to only bypass the heat exchanger on drag days.
11-06-2010, 07:10 PM
#9
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Alan, Great post!! How do you like the killer chiller? I cant believe that on a WOT run you saw only 68 degrees!! Could you please either post details or PM me the information on price, install and where I could buy this? Appreciate it! We thought of doing it but did not think it would net such great results.
Could you please either post details or PM me the information on price, install and where I could buy this? Appreciate it! We thought of doing it but did not think it would net such great results.
11-06-2010, 10:02 PM
#11
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Alan, Great post!! How do you like the killer chiller? I cant believe that on a WOT run you saw only 68 degrees!! Could you please either post details or PM me the information on price, install and where I could buy this? Appreciate it! We thought of doing it but did not think it would net such great results.
Could you please either post details or PM me the information on price, install and where I could buy this? Appreciate it! We thought of doing it but did not think it would net such great results. Give me a couple of weeks to log the car and I'm sure once everything is okay my buddy will release the info. Feel free to pm MBtek for more info.
My main reason for the lower iat's in the beginning was to help with my power under the curve. I use the KC for lower beginning temps and meth for the mid to higher rpm. When I get a moment I'll log a full run and pm it to you. You'll be amazed.
Hopefully I get my tune dialed in before Famsoso, things have changed. My times and performance will be in the hands of Jeremy, as my car is logging better than ever. His tune will determine whether or not I beat my pb, the car has every mod a tuner will need to turn out great numbers. Hopefully I'll deliver on my end nail my launch.
11-06-2010, 11:06 PM
#12
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I'm tuned in for Logs my friend!!! Can only imagine what those logs look like. Any noticeable changes on afr's?
I'll be all over this if its meant to help on low end/beginning temps
11-06-2010, 11:21 PM
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A Prius because I'm green
Besides IAT's being cooler lets not forget the cool down time being reduced if you want to bracket race! Alan remember icing her down at the staging lanes really quick in 100+ degree weather at Fontana? I guess we don't need to worry about that anymore!
Glad to hear it was a smooth install Alan, so tell me how did her twin look at MBteks house haha besides dirty?
P.S. MBTek is the man!
Glad to hear it was a smooth install Alan, so tell me how did her twin look at MBteks house haha besides dirty?
P.S. MBTek is the man!
Last edited by Mikesamg; 11-06-2010 at 11:24 PM.
11-06-2010, 11:33 PM
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Awesome!
Sounds like Bruce from TTM will be fabricating the first ever one on a V12TT. He just doesn't know it yet.
Sounds like Bruce from TTM will be fabricating the first ever one on a V12TT. He just doesn't know it yet.
11-06-2010, 11:52 PM
#15
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Things people need to consider before they decide to go through with a chiller.
You need a remote mounted tank. Your a/c system does not allow the a/c compressor to run at WOT. Which means unless you have a couple gallons of ice cold water to circulate during a pass you will heat soak the system on the top end of a run.
Every track I ever went to they don't like when people run their a/c in staging because you end up dripping water down the track as you launch. We've been kicked to the back of the line before for icing coolers down in the past because the melted water was dripping down from the belly pans at the line.
11-07-2010, 01:49 AM
#16
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Things people need to consider before they decide to go through with a chiller.
You need a remote mounted tank. Your a/c system does not allow the a/c compressor to run at WOT. Which means unless you have a couple gallons of ice cold water to circulate during a pass you will heat soak the system on the top end of a run.
You need a remote mounted tank. Your a/c system does not allow the a/c compressor to run at WOT. Which means unless you have a couple gallons of ice cold water to circulate during a pass you will heat soak the system on the top end of a run.
. His IAT's started at 60 or so and ended at less than 130. Temps that day was as high as 90 degrees. He tested his system his on his own car and there were slight modications that needed to be done. All though modifications are needed the system is totally reversible with no trace of it ever being there.One more thing to add, my other buddy has a fast stage 2 with less mods but the same stock cooling system except for the upgraded HE and his IAT's are near 160 at the end of a run, less KC.
My tech designed this system (gathered the parts needed) to see if he could better our system since he never opted to use a rear reservoir. My tech and I both agreed that my car would be the perfect "next car" since I have gone to the extreme of with my cooling. If my tech ends up putting a kit together and makes a few bucks, good for him because he deserves it. To tell the truth, money isn't his driving factor on helping other on the board.
As I said, I will post more results as I get them.
Every track I ever went to they don't like when people run their a/c in staging because you end up dripping water down the track as you launch. We've been kicked to the back of the line before for icing coolers down in the past because the melted water was dripping down from the belly pans at the line.
Furthermore, this system won't only benefit at the track but also in daily driving. Believe or not, not everyone will be taking their cars down the 1/4 mile. Actually a very low percentage ever races their cars at the track.
Thanks for the input!
Last edited by bassn_07; 11-07-2010 at 12:05 PM.
11-07-2010, 01:00 AM
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Again your Preliminary results seem promising and i hope you kick some *** at Famoso with the new addition.
I'm tuned in for Logs my friend!!! Can only imagine what those logs look like. Any noticeable changes on afr's?
I'll be all over this if its meant to help on low end/beginning temps
I'm tuned in for Logs my friend!!! Can only imagine what those logs look like. Any noticeable changes on afr's?
I'll be all over this if its meant to help on low end/beginning temps
I only managed to get one run in the way home last night, just too risky here in the bay area. I happened to focus mainly on my IAT's rather than my AFR's, I already knew I was rich.
FYI...I now have a EGT probe in my #8 cylinder
. Since I already had one in the #5 I decided to add my extra on #8. No solid info on that cylinder yet but it will be logged on my next race day. Like I told other members, let me test the system for a couple of weeks and I'll have some solid info. I have the private rental coming up at Famoso and I'll try a ton of different methods and post all info. No meth, meth, race tune meth, race tune no meth, ice and no ice, KC vs no additional cooling (ice) and so on. If you download zeitronix software I'll send you a few logs when that happens. All these different runs will be attached to a time slip and not judged by a dyno seat of the pants feel, or how many blinking triangle lights we have.
11-07-2010, 01:44 AM
#18
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Thanks Luis! I hope that I kick some a$$ too...haha. The car is ready but it's in need of a tune bad now. I was really hoping to get a Sac day in before Famoso to dial things in but it's not happening, work is too busy.
I only managed to get one run in the way home last night, just too risky here in the bay area. I happened to focus mainly on my IAT's rather than my AFR's, I already knew I was rich.
FYI...I now have a EGT probe in my #8 cylinder. Since I already had one in the #5 I decided to add my extra on #8. No solid info on that cylinder yet but it will be logged on my next race day.
Like I told other members, let me test the system for a couple of weeks and I'll have some solid info. I have the private rental coming up at Famoso and I'll try a ton of different methods and post all info. No meth, meth, race tune meth, race tune no meth, ice and no ice, KC vs no additional cooling (ice) and so on. If you download zeitronix software I'll send you a few logs when that happens. All these different runs will be attached to a time slip and not judged by a dyno seat of the pants feel, or how many blinking triangle lights we have.
I only managed to get one run in the way home last night, just too risky here in the bay area. I happened to focus mainly on my IAT's rather than my AFR's, I already knew I was rich.
FYI...I now have a EGT probe in my #8 cylinder
. Since I already had one in the #5 I decided to add my extra on #8. No solid info on that cylinder yet but it will be logged on my next race day. Like I told other members, let me test the system for a couple of weeks and I'll have some solid info. I have the private rental coming up at Famoso and I'll try a ton of different methods and post all info. No meth, meth, race tune meth, race tune no meth, ice and no ice, KC vs no additional cooling (ice) and so on. If you download zeitronix software I'll send you a few logs when that happens. All these different runs will be attached to a time slip and not judged by a dyno seat of the pants feel, or how many blinking triangle lights we have.
Its crazy how we think the cooling part is all sorted out to the then be in need of a re-tune 
Checking my EGT's is something i have to look into man, i log with DASHDAQ/ZEITRONIX combo with AFR wideband in my car but have not looked into EGT probes yet.
11-07-2010, 11:59 AM
#19
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.The EGT sensor is very reasonably priced and in my mind a very important part of logging. By chance do you have a ZVAT unit yet for the Zeitronix? If not get one pronto and setup all you alarms. You could setup simple alarms or more complex ones, the sky is the limit. I use Rob over at Needswings for all my logging needs and more, if you want his contact info please let me know. He has always given me better prices than most.
Edit: Luis, maybe my tech will chime in and possibly try and get you a unit while race season is still here. The only downfall to this system would be lower inside temps at idle, but once the water cools the system works much less in keeping it cool. Worse case scenario, a bypass system could be incorporated easily to eliminate the KC out of the loop to get back full cooling strength to the cabin. This might be something the AZ boys or others living in unbearable temps during summer might want to consider.
Bottom line, the system is working and you don't need a rear reservoir...proven by Scott. Listen to the people who actually installed the system on the car and not sitting on a shelf.
Last edited by bassn_07; 11-07-2010 at 12:11 PM.
11-07-2010, 01:55 PM
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Every track I ever went to they don't like when people run their a/c in staging because you end up dripping water down the track as you launch. We've been kicked to the back of the line before for icing coolers down in the past because the melted water was dripping down from the belly pans at the line.
. I, along with a few other MB owners, got kicked out once at Fontana and twice at Famoso for dripping ice at the staging lines due to icing down the airboxes and intake manifold before the run.
11-07-2010, 04:55 PM
#21
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Great Update and fantastic work in continuing to blaze a new product R&D. Hopefully MBTEK will put some kits together and I can get in on one. One question though. If you remove the HE doesn't that mean you need to run the AC all the time to manage coolant temps to the IC? I get what you are saying about the HE reducing efficiency because it will actually heat up the coolant on a hot day, but I don't see myself running the AC all the time.
11-07-2010, 05:09 PM
#23
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Great Update and fantastic work in continuing to blaze a new product R&D. Hopefully MBTEK will put some kits together and I can get in on one. One question though. If you remove the HE doesn't that mean you need to run the AC all the time to manage coolant temps to the IC? I get what you are saying about the HE reducing efficiency because it will actually heat up the coolant on a hot day, but I don't see myself running the AC all the time.
The other things that concern me about not having the HE is long runs. The AC shuts off at WOT which means the KC will no longer have the ability to cool. Now, once that water has heated up the HE would now be needed. For me this wouldn't be a problem since I use meth.
IMO, the best thing from what I've seen so far would be to incorporate a bypass valve that would allow the KC to do all the cooling during a track day. After the track event just turn the valve and you're back to normal. Just a thought.
11-07-2010, 05:20 PM
#24
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I was thinking maybe some bypass valve too to switch back for pure track mode. Maybe something to think about. I will be running meth too for next season, so I think this will be a perfect combination. Can;t wait to seeyour loggin results.
