The Official Winter Tire thread ... all winter tire questions go here !!!

[Luke@tirerack]

as another winter approaches here we go again ... So, first off let's learn or relearn the facts about winter tires How do winter tires work? here are a few pictures to illustrate the mechanics involved in winter traction. If you look closely at a road surface you can tell that it is really not that smooth as represented by the model in this picture with the high grip rubber compound used in your summer performance tires the contact area conforms to the irregular surface of the road. That amount of contact can generate a tremndous amount of traction in the summer time but, what if the road in snow covered? That brings us to the question, what makes a tire a good winter tire? The answer is a three part puzzle and without all three parts traction will be compromised. let's look at the first part of the puzzle; tread design this picture shows a winter tire tread design which, as you can clearly see, utilizes a large number of sipes when the road gets snow covered the tire is no longer able to conform to the surface. the siping allows the tread elements to flex under stress create aggressive "biting edges" when braking, cornering or accelerating part two of our three piece traction puzzle is tread depth While deep snow and ice-covered roads are two of the most challenging conditions North American drivers will face, tire developments during the last decade have noticeably advanced wintertime mobility. The technological revolution of dedicated winter tires for drivers in the snowbelt, and the continuing evolution of all-season tires for drivers living on its periphery characteristically offer more grip in snow and on ice than ever before. However the basics of delivering traction and handling in snow and on ice remain unchanged. Tires must combine three fundamental features to deliver good wintertime performance, including an appropriate tread design, pliable tread compound and sufficient tread depth. If any one of these fundamental features is absent, the other two, regardless of their ability, cannot deliver the desired results! Since engineers can develop cutting-edge tread designs and chemists can develop advanced rubber compounds, it is often the remaining tread depth that is the variable in determining wintertime performance. In most parts of the world, tires are considered to be legally worn out when they reach 2/32" (approximately 1.6mm) of remaining tread depth. U.S. law requires tires to have easy-to-see Tread Wear Indicator bars running from one side of their tread design to the other when the tire's tread has worn down to the minimum legal limit of 2/32 inch. However in spite of the legal minimums, Tire Rack recommends that drivers expecting to experience wet conditions consider replacing their tires when they reach 4/32" of remaining tread depth. Tire Rack's tests have shown how shallow treads reduce wet braking traction and increase stopping distances Tire Rack also recommends that drivers expecting to encounter snow-covered roads consider replacing their tires when they reach approximately 6/32" of remaining tread depth to maintain good mobility. Tires need more tread depth in wintry conditions to compress snow in their grooves and release it as they roll. If there isn't sufficient tread depth, the "bites" of snow that can be processed on each tire revolution will be reduced to "nibbles," and the vehicle's traction and mobility in snow will be reduced. The third and final part of the puzzle is the rubber compound used. Rubber compounds vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer but, the task is the same so, you will see similarities between the products. They all typically use compounds which utilize materials designed to remain flexible at cold temps in addition to traction enhancements from silica and other materials which add more bite on ice. Now, for the next step ... types of winter tires There are basically three different types of winter tires #1.) Performance Winter You want enhanced dry road handling from your winter tires and are willing to trade some snow and ice traction to get it. Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these low profile, H- or V-speed rated tires are designed to suit winter driving on European highways. They are available in many of the low profile sizes used as Original Equipment on sporty imported and domestic cars. Due to their unique designs these tires must be installed in sets of four. #2.) Studless Ice and Snow You want to maximize snow and ice traction from your winter tires without the inconvenience of using winter tire studs. Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these Q-speed rated tires feature the latest in tread compound technology to provide winter traction without the inconvenience of tire studs. They trade a little handling for excellent ice and snow traction. Due to their unique tread compounds these tires must be installed in sets of four. #3.)Studdable Winter You want the traditional security of studded winter tires for enhanced traction on ice. Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these non-, Q-, S-, or T-speed rated tires feature traditional snow tire tread compounds and studdable tread designs for good snow and ice traction. Due to their unique designs these tires must be used in sets of four. Use of studded tires is often prohibited or restricted. Check with local authorities to confirm legality. But Do I Really Need Winter Tires? The primary concern that our customers express is that they don't want to get "stuck" in the snow (or in the ditch) during the winter. While in cities like Atlantic City, Memphis and Seattle located at the extreme edges of the snow belt, relatively new All-Season tires will probably work just fine. But the odds change as you move further into the snow belt or the All-Season tires have a few years of wear on them. And who wants to gamble...especially when their collision deductible and future insurance premiums are on the table. We all know that tires are a compromise. One tire can't be the fastest on the track, most controllable in the snow, and longest wearing. The Ultra High Performance tire that grips the track with tread temperatures of 200° is incompetent as its tread compound becomes like "hard plastic" at below 32°. Today's 80,000-mile tires require tread designs and compounds that maximize long, even wear... not winter traction. And while many of today's all-season tires (Original Equipment, touring and performance) address some of these issues, they still emphasize longer wear, a quieter ride or greater performance...not winter traction. Only winter tires are designed to excel in the colder temperatures, slush, snow and ice that many parts of the country experience for three or more months a year. It's also important to note that the recent advancements in electronic driver aids, such as ABS and traction control don't provide more traction. They only help prevent drivers from over braking or overpowering the available traction of their tires. The only thing the driver can do to increase traction...to actually get more grip and control... is install better tires. Considering all of the new and different models and the specific requirements for each of them and all of the additional variables it is nearly impossible to list every wheel and tire combination available so, I am doing things slightly different this year. As in the past, there are 'general use' recommended packages for each model car to be found at TIRERACK.com but, if you would like to dicuss other options for your specific needs please don't hesitate to give me a call at 800-428-8355 ext. 362 or drop me an e-mail you can also post in this thread for specific recommendations, which would be my preferred method of communication, that way more people will get the needed information. In your post please supply the following information .... year: make: model: location: tires only or winter package: and I will respond directly to your post I will also be adding to this thread periodically so, check back often

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[slowroll]

Hi Luke,
Thanks for doing this!

year: 2008
make: MB
model: SL550
location: Chicago, IL
tires only or winter package: Winter Package

Thanks,
slowroll

[Luke@tirerack]

Originally Posted by slowroll

Hi Luke,
Thanks for doing this!

year: 2008
make: MB
model: SL550
location: Chicago, IL
tires only or winter package: Winter Package

Thanks,
slowroll

17" package would be my choice for you car

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2

The Pilot Alpin PA2 molds a tread rubber compound that remains flexible at lower temperatures for greater grip, into a high-contact, speed rating-specific tread design (V-speed rated tires feature a directional, 5-rib independent block tread design while H-speed rated tires feature a 6-rib version). The tread blocks feature Michelin's "Bi-Directional Sipes System" technology that enhances performance on wet, snow-packed and icy roads. On the inside, the Pilot Alpin PA2 features twin steel belts that are reinforced by Michelin's size-optimized BAZ technology where nylon cord is Banded At Zero degrees to the direction of travel. The Pilot Alpin PA2 incorporates Michelin's Radial XSE Technology (which consists of a silica-enhanced Smart Tread Compound, Optimized Casing Shape and Optimized Mass Distribution) to enhance the Pilot Alpin PA2's performance and wear.


along with Sport Edition ST3 wheels

[slowroll]

These are the tires that I am planning on getting. However, when I "make my own 17" package" only 6 wheel-types show up. Are there going to be more options for wheels?

slowroll

[Luke@tirerack]

only those 6 .. .that's it

[slowroll]

Thanks for your help Luke!

[Whiplash]

Ok Luke,

Here goes

2009
MB C63
Central NJ (Country Roads) to Northern NJ
Prefer Winter Package with Air Pressure Sensors too

Thanks,

Whiplash

[Luke@tirerack]

2009 C63

Winter Sport 3D tires

The SP Winter Sport 3D utilizes Dunlop's new reactive silica mixing process to enable its tread compound to provide high elasticity at low temperatures resulting in dependable grip in winter driving conditions. This compound is molded into a directional tread design that reduces the chances of hydroplaning and helps maintain good traction on wet and slush-covered roads. Three different types of high-density sipes define three distinct traction zones in one tire. The central tread blocks features "pulling" sipes to provide traction while accelerating and braking, especially on ice and snow. The intermediate blocks use high-amplitude sipes to enhanced lateral stability and control in wet and slushy conditions. And finally, the 3D sipes in the shoulder blocks interlock to increase dry road stability and handling while continuing to offer the flexibility necessary to grip snow and ice. The SP Winter Sport 3D tire's structure includes twin steel belts reinforced by Dunlop's JointLess Band (JLB) of nylon to optimize the contact patch and minimize tire growth at high speed.

with Sport Tuning Glide wheels


$1624.00 plus shipping (includes sensors)

[Whiplash]

Thanks Luke What size are the tires and rims? 18 in? What's typical delivery time? I plan on ordering in the next week.

Whiplash
C63

[Luke@tirerack]

18" wheels with 235/40-18 tires and it would only take a day or two

[Pit-Pony]

A 2009 C300 Sport in Nova Scotia. I need wheels and tires as the car came with AMG rims.

I wonder is 16" would fit.

I have a set of 16s from my W203 but even if I machine for the 14mm bolts they only clear the brakes by only a hair and the offset is a bit low, so I need wheels as well, but nothing tacky

Thanks

[Luke@tirerack]

16" wheels will fit but, as you already know W203 wheels are not designed for the w204 chassis.

I would go with the Rial Como 16" wheel



along a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 3D's in the 215/55-16



Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D and SP Winter Sport 3D RunOnFlat (ROF) tires are Performance Winter tires developed for sports cars, coupes and sedans that come from the factory equipped with low profile tires mounted on large diameter alloy wheels. They are designed to provide dry, wet and snow-covered road competence by delivering traction throughout winter's cold temperatures.

The SP Winter Sport 3D utilizes Dunlop's new reactive silica mixing process to enable its tread compound to provide high elasticity at low temperatures resulting in dependable grip in winter driving conditions. This compound is molded into a directional tread design that reduces the chances of hydroplaning and helps maintain good traction on wet and slush-covered roads. Three different types of high-density sipes define three distinct traction zones in one tire. The central tread blocks features "pulling" sipes to provide traction while accelerating and braking, especially on ice and snow. The intermediate blocks use high-amplitude sipes to enhanced lateral stability and control in wet and slushy conditions. And finally, the 3D sipes in the shoulder blocks interlock to increase dry road stability and handling while continuing to offer the flexibility necessary to grip snow and ice. The SP Winter Sport 3D tire's structure includes twin steel belts reinforced by Dunlop's JointLess Band (JLB) of nylon to optimize the contact patch and minimize tire growth at high speed.

[Pit-Pony]

Thanks Luke. I get a warning on your web in my cart about the Dunlop Sport 3D tires

The following tire you have selected has a higher load rating than the vehicle's Original Equipment (O.E.) tires. This typically results in increased ride harshness, which some customers may find undesirable.

Would the Dunlop SP M3 tires be more suitable?

Thanks again.

(Now I just have to wait for the exchange rate to improve after the down slide.)

..jack

[Luke@tirerack]

Originally Posted by Pit-Pony

Thanks Luke. I get a warning on your web in my cart about the Dunlop Sport 3D tires

The following tire you have selected has a higher load rating than the vehicle's Original Equipment (O.E.) tires. This typically results in increased ride harshness, which some customers may find undesirable.

(Now I just have to wait for the exchange rate to improve after the down slide.)

..jack

it's just a computer thing that pops up because the tire you selected has a higher load capacity than the OE tire on your car don't worry about it as any additional firmness in the ride can easily be counteracted by a slight change in the tire pressure.

[Luke@tirerack]

not sure if you need winter tires? watch this video before you decide

[twestrope]

2008
MB E350 4matic
Denver

Sport pkg w/ 245 40 R18
tires only as it is a 2 yr lease

My wife drives this car so she would prefer better traction in snow/ice over high speed performance / handling in the winter.

Thanks.

the Blizzak LM25 will offer the most snow and ice traction in the 245/40-18 size

The Blizzak LM-25 is Bridgestone's Performance Winter tire developed for the drivers of high performance sports cars, sport coupes and sport sedans that require winter driving traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads. Blizzak LM-25 winter tires are designed to combine good snow and ice traction with "European" high-speed winter driving performance.

The Blizzak LM-25 winter tire's overall combination of capabilities is made possible by Bridgestone's UNI-T technology that brings advanced tire technologies together. Innovative tire design, construction and tread compound help maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear while providing traction in winter.

Blizzak LM-25 winter tires feature a directional tread design with rounded tread shoulders to increase hydroplaning resistance on wet and slush-covered roads while enhancing dry and wet road handling. They use a high silica content winter tread compound to combine winter traction with high-speed durability (the current Multicell tread compounds used on most Blizzak winter tires cannot support H- or V-speed ratings). The Blizzak LM-25 features an independent block tread design that employs the Lamellen "edge effect" with multiple three dimensional ("3D") zigzag sipes specifically placed in the tread blocks to provide the biting edges needed to help grip snow and ice for winter traction without resorting to traditional metal studs.

[FEGELEIN]

Just what I am looking for Luke

year:08
make:MB
model: CLK 550
location:nyc
tires only or winter package: please recommend both

All seasons would be a waste, correct?

all season tires don't do anything very well ....

here's what you should do for the your CLK


get 4 of these wheels in 17x8


along with a set of Pilot Alpin PA3 in 225/45-17

The Pilot Alpin PA3 is Michelin's Performance Winter Tire developed to meet the needs of drivers who want to retain the precision of their Ultra High Performance sports car, sedan or coupe during winter conditions. The Pilot Alpin PA3 is designed to increase driving confidence in cold weather by enhancing traction and handling on dry, wet and snow-covered roads.

The Pilot Alpin PA3 features a sunflower oil-enriched Helio Compound to increase traction at low temperatures for improved braking and handling in the wet, as well as better overall performance in the snow. The tread compound is molded into an asymmetric tread design that features Variable Thickness Sipes (V.T.S.) technology where wide sipes on the inboard side of the tread design provide traction in the snow and narrower sipes on the outboard side enhance handling in the dry. The tire's internal structure includes a polyester cord body under twin steel belts that are reinforced by Michelin's BAZ technology, where polyamide cord is spirally Banded At Zero degrees to the direction of travel to combine high-speed capability with ride comfort.

[mmehtas]

Both cars are located near Philadelphia, PA

2007 S550 4matic with AMG sports package and 2008 E350 4matic

Need winter tire package info please.

Thanks!

here's what I'm thinking for your cars and your area
2007 S550
4 of these wheels in 17"


along with 4 235/55-17 Blizzak LM22

Blizzak LM-22 Performance winter tires were developed to combine good snow and ice traction with European high-speed winter driving performance. Available in low profile, H-speed rated sizes; Blizzak LM-22 tires are for the drivers of high performance sport cars, sport coupes and sport sedans who require winter driving traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads.

Blizzak LM-22 studless winter tires feature a directional tread design to enhance hydroplaning resistance on wet and slush-covered roads with rounded tread shoulders to enhance dry and wet road handling. Their tread compound has a high silica content instead of the Multicell tread compounds used on other Blizzak winter tires. This allows Blizzak LM-22 tires to combine winter traction with H-speed rated durability (current Multicell compounds can not support 130 mph H-speed ratings). The Blizzak LM-22 tires feature an independent block tread design which employs the Lamellen "edge effect" (multiple biting edges in the tread blocks to help grip snow and ice) to enhance winter traction without resorting to traditional metal studs.

The Blizzak LM-22 winter tire's overall combination of capabilities is made possible by Bridgestone's UNI-T technology that brings advanced tire technologies together, taking performance to a new level. Innovative tire design, construction and tread compound help maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear while providing traction in winter.

Blizzak LM-22 winter tires meet the industry's severe snow service requirements and are branded with the snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol.

and for the E350

these wheels in 17"


along with a set of 245/45-17 Blizzak LM25's

The Blizzak LM-25 is Bridgestone's Performance Winter tire developed for the drivers of high performance sports cars, sport coupes and sport sedans that require winter driving traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads. Blizzak LM-25 winter tires are designed to combine good snow and ice traction with "European" high-speed winter driving performance.

The Blizzak LM-25 winter tire's overall combination of capabilities is made possible by Bridgestone's UNI-T technology that brings advanced tire technologies together. Innovative tire design, construction and tread compound help maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear while providing traction in winter.

Blizzak LM-25 winter tires feature a directional tread design with rounded tread shoulders to increase hydroplaning resistance on wet and slush-covered roads while enhancing dry and wet road handling. They use a high silica content winter tread compound to combine winter traction with high-speed durability (the current Multicell tread compounds used on most Blizzak winter tires cannot support H- or V-speed ratings). The Blizzak LM-25 features an independent block tread design that employs the Lamellen "edge effect" with multiple three dimensional ("3D") zigzag sipes specifically placed in the tread blocks to provide the biting edges needed to help grip snow and ice for winter traction without resorting to traditional metal studs.

[whitee]

05 E55
Want dedicated snow tires (such as the Blizzak WS-60) ... I've read of other E55 owners using a 17" wheel (so that I could use the desired tires) with the correct offsets to clear the big brakes. Can you advise?

W210 E55's could run 17" wheels but your W211 has larger brakes which makes 17" wheels not possible

so, 18" wheel and tire package would be the best way to go
and here is the one I would pick givin the limited info

these 18" MSW Type 14 wheels


along with a set of 245/40-18 Blizzak LM25's

The Blizzak LM-25 is Bridgestone's Performance Winter tire developed for the drivers of high performance sports cars, sport coupes and sport sedans that require winter driving traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads. Blizzak LM-25 winter tires are designed to combine good snow and ice traction with "European" high-speed winter driving performance.

The Blizzak LM-25 winter tire's overall combination of capabilities is made possible by Bridgestone's UNI-T technology that brings advanced tire technologies together. Innovative tire design, construction and tread compound help maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear while providing traction in winter.

Blizzak LM-25 winter tires feature a directional tread design with rounded tread shoulders to increase hydroplaning resistance on wet and slush-covered roads while enhancing dry and wet road handling. They use a high silica content winter tread compound to combine winter traction with high-speed durability (the current Multicell tread compounds used on most Blizzak winter tires cannot support H- or V-speed ratings). The Blizzak LM-25 features an independent block tread design that employs the Lamellen "edge effect" with multiple three dimensional ("3D") zigzag sipes specifically placed in the tread blocks to provide the biting edges needed to help grip snow and ice for winter traction without resorting to traditional metal studs.

[evoviiiyou]

08 GL450 4Matic
19" MB wheels

-would love to know if I even need snow tires here in Ohio as this will be my first winter here.

Thanks!

your GL will be quite unruly in winter precipitation and there aren't any suitable tires for those 19" wheels so here's what I think

18" wheel and tire package with these Rial Oslo wheels


and the Blizzak DMZ3 tires in a 265/60-18 size

The sportier the vehicle, the sportier the winter tire for it. And while many light trucks feature four-wheel drive systems to enhance their poor weather capabilities, their unique ability to accelerate with relative ease (compared to standard passenger cars) doesn't convert into extra cornering or stopping traction. So if you want to maximize all of your light truck's winter capabilities, use Bridgestone Blizzak technology to help provide the snow and ice traction you need.

The Blizzak DM-Z3 features a directional tread design to help maintain good traction on wet and slush-covered roads while its zigzag sipes and independent tread blocks provide the edges to help bite through snow. It also features Bridgestone's Link Multicell Compound which is glass fiber reinforced to enhance vehicle stability on dry roads while it helps disperse water to reduce the risk of slipping on the thin surface film of water that makes ice so dangerous. This allows the Blizzak DM-Z3 to approach the traction provided by a studded tire on ice...without the use of studs.

NOTE: The first 55% of the Blizzak DM-Z3 tread depth features the Link Multicell Compound while the remaining 45% features a standard winter tire compound.

The Blizzak DM-Z3 radial meets the industry's severe snow service requirements and is branded with the snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol.

Bridgestone's Ultimate Network of Intelligent Tire Technology (UNI-T) brings advanced tire technologies together, taking tire performance to a new level. This combination of innovative tire design, roundness and tread compound maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear.

[SDMF]

Hi

I have a 2008 C350 lowered with H&R sport springs

I have chosen from TR the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 RFT 225/45R17 and
Borbet LV5 rims.

My question is will these winter tires & rims clear if my car is lowered?

Thanks

SDMF

that setup will work fine even on your lowered car. Did you already order them if yes what is the order number if no use this LINK

[UAS206]

year: 2004
make: MB
model: SLK230 Special Edition
location: driving every week from Clovis, New Mexico to Dallas, Texas and back (1,200 miles roundtrip weekly).


I'm wearing down my tires so I have to change them in the next few weeks. I've never really worried about winter tires since I've always lived in Florida or Texas and snow is a 2 day thing per year at the most and by the afternoon it's all gone.

However the rain has me reasearching tires today. Last week I was driving from Clovis, New Mexico home to the Dallas area in rain around 60MPH with the cruise control on. I started to fishtail and did everything right regarding steering wheel control but I forgot to turn off the cruise control. Three full turns later I was in a cotton field off the side of the road. Nothing hurt except for my ego and my wallet ($125 towing fee to pull me onto the road again).

So I need new tires for my OEM rims. I currently have TOYO Potenza4 225-45-ZR17 in front and TOYO Potenza4 245-40-ZR17 in the rear. Even with dry highways I don't drive over 90mph anymore so I don't think I need ZR and they really aren't lasting me more than 15,000 miles before they're worn out and I have to change them. I think these Texas roads are too hard on them and eat them up too quickly.

Can I get a tire that isn't loud and can last longer than these and still has rain traction ? Do I need winter tires ? What are my options ? HELP !

take a look at the BF Goodrich Super Sport A/S they would serve you well

[anerbe]

as added information from luke's original post...

Sipes also do the job of capturing snow in the treads. Rubber to Snow friction coefficient is much less than snow to snow (try shearing apart a packed snowball vs a piece of rubber sliding on packed snow).

Sipes also capture snow, so when it makes contact with snow on the ground, it allows for more grip.

[FEGELEIN]

Thanks Luke, but what if I decide to run my 18" AMG's in the winter? What tire then?


Blizzak LM25 would be the tire of choice

[CapriCLK55]

I am looking for winter rubber for my CLK55. The Dunlop 3Ds, in 245/40/17 and 225/25/17 look like they will fit the bill.

How long does it typically take to ship to Canada?


7-10 days